Talk:Tibet

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Former good articleTibet was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 12, 2005[article nominee]Listed
April 7, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 16, 2007Good article reassessmentDelisted
Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive This article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of April 10, 2005.
Current status: Delisted good article


Tibet means Tibet Autonomous Region[edit]

Tibet 西藏 commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region, similarly China means PRC, the Tibet Autonomous Region page should become Tibet page, this page should become new page Tibetan Region 藏区. Toto11zi (talk) 21:05, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is another page on Tibet Autonomous Region. If you want that page to be renamed as "Tibet", you need to gather sources and file a WP:RfM on its talk page. You would also need to propose a new title for this page, perhaps Tibet region or something like that. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good comment, let me add move notice on both current "Tibet" page, and the other "Tibet Autonomous Region" before moving. Toto11zi (talk) 02:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page move, please add if you have more ideas.[edit]

Tibet 西藏 commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region, similarly China means PRC, the Tibet Autonomous Region page should become Tibet page, current Tibet page should become new page Tibetan Area (or Tibet Region, or Greater Tibet) 藏区. Both current titles "Tibet" and "Tibet Autonomous Region" do not follow Wikipedia's naming conventions, such as that it is not the common name of the subject. Some common links show that common meaning of Tibet is Tibet Autonomous Region:

Google map

Tibet means Tibet Autonomous Region

Bing map

Tibet means Tibet Autonomous Region

Travel agency of Tibet

Tibet Autonomous Region is one of the autonomous regions of the People's Republic of China and is commonly abbreviated as Xizang (Tibet).
The Tibetan Area (or Tibetan Region) is a broader geographical concept

Dalai Lama's statement

Tibet is a part of the People's Republic of China. It is an autonomous region of the People's Republic of China.

U.S. policy toward Tibet

The United States considers the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR (hereafter referred to as "Tibet") as part of the People's Republic of China.

Britannica

Tibet, historic region and autonomous region of China that is often called “the roof of the world.”

Toto11zi (talk) 02:29, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 29 May 2024[edit]

– Tibet commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region, more info and common links can be found in Talk page of Tibet, also Talk page of Tibet Autonomous Region, current Tibet page can be moved to Greater Tibet Toto11zi (talk) 14:30, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. None of the sources above are supportive of the claim. Nobody contests that "Tibet Autonomous Region" is often shortened to "Tibet", and of course maps need to show the current boundaries. You need to show via sources that "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR rather than the broader cultural grouping and historical Tibet. But I don't think that's true; English language media routinely refers to Tibetans as Tibetans wherever they are as well as the general history of the region. For comparison, see Ireland, a broad-concept article on Ireland-across-history; this is the equivalent for Tibet, which I think is correct. I could maybe see an argument for moving Tibet (disambiguation) to Tibet, something like Macedonia, a disambiguation page that does not redirect to North Macedonia nor the Macedonia region of Greece nor the historical kingdom; but think that the status quo is fine. Besides, there's a link directly in the hatnote to the TAR. SnowFire (talk) 19:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The name Tibet is similar to the name China: China commonly means PRC, and that's why name China was moved from Greater China to PRC. Wikipedia:Article_titles states that commonly used name should be used as title of page, common examples are shown above: Google map, Bing map, travel agency of Tibet, Dalai Lama's statement, U.S. policy toward Tibet, and Britannica, all these common examples show that Tibet means Tibet Autonomous Region in general, and boundary is defined. Again, I'm not proving "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR, but showing Tibet commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region. Island Ireland is not a good example, since it's boundary is defined and does not change with history in general. Macedonia is also not a good example, since name is used for multiple places. Are you saying page Tibet can only be moved to TAR only if "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR, do I understand right? Is this Wikipedia's naming conventions? ~~~ Toto11zi (talk) 04:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:COMMONNAME is irrelevant to the move you propose, as both topics have a common name of "Tibet". A move would require a case that identified a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (or lack of). CMD (talk) 04:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Tibet commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region, this suggests primary topic of Tibet is Tibet Autonomous Region, do I understand right? Toto11zi (talk) 04:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Possibly depending on what you mean, we usually distinguish the two terminologies to reduce confusion. SnowFire has explained what is needed. CMD (talk) 04:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As stated, this is similar to the PRC vs. Greater China case, primary topic of China is PRC, not Greater China. Similarly primary topic of Tibet is TAR. If I understand right, SnowFire suggests Tibet can be moved to TAR only if "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR, this suggests there should be only one meaning for the term Tibet. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC suggests there're multiple meanings, and we pick the primary meaning. Am I correct? Toto11zi (talk) 04:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You might be reading PRIMARYTOPIC right, but I'm unsure as you don't seem to understand what SnowFire said. SnowFire effectively said you would have to show that the TAR is the primary topic, and that they do not believe you have done so. CMD (talk) 05:33, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, he said "You need to show via sources that "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR rather than the broader cultural grouping and historical Tibet.", this means one meaning for Tibet. I responded " I'm not proving Tibet unadorned means specifically just the TAR, but showing Tibet commonly means Tibet Autonomous Region.". This means Tibet has multiple meanings, and Tibet Autonomous Region is the most common meaning, the primary topic. Toto11zi (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You do need to show that "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR in most cases order to demonstrate it is the primary topic. CMD (talk) 05:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think SnowFire clearly wants "sources that "Tibet" unadorned means specifically just the TAR rather than the broader cultural grouping and historical Tibet.", agree? To be fair, I think same criteria can be applied for "Greater Tibet", agree? Toto11zi (talk) 06:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you're asking me to agree to, but any assertion of a primary topic would have to provide evidence of what a word means. CMD (talk) 07:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Instead of guessing SnowFire's statement, probably we need clarification from SnowFire. I've already provided various sources (maps, government policies, encyclopedia, travel agency) which indicate term Tibet means Tibet Autonomous Region, not Greater Tibet. This discussion is same as China: PRC vs. Greater China. Boundary of China has changed in different periods, and the current boundary of China is boundary of the PRC, similarly boundary of Tibet has changed in different periods, the current boundary of Tibet is the TAR. Toto11zi (talk) 13:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • (de-indent) @Toto11zi: CMD is correct. You've basically made the case that "Tibet Autonomous Region" is also called "Tibet", and should be on the Tibet (disambiguation) page and maybe the hatnote. Except that wasn't contested or controversial - it was already there, and a link is already in the hatnote. You need to prove a stronger claim for the move you're proposing, that of primary topic. Put things another way, suppose there's a situation with three articles, "Foo" (a song), Foo's Ultimate Super Album, and Fred's Official Office. Your links are fine for showing whether cases like the album or the office are abbreviated to "Foo" and deserve to be on the disambiguation page at all. But doing a primary topic grab requires a broader examination of the literature - is one meaning the most common one, ideally by >50%? If not, is it an "original" core meaning the others branch off of? To determine this, you need to do things like search for just the term unadorned ("Tibet" in this case) and see what meaning is intended, how often. For example, searching for "Tibet site:nytimes.com" has https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/travel/tibetan-culture.html as the first hit, which is very explicitly talking about Tibet-overall and directly goes over the shifting boundaries. Even if you could argue that "Tibet" meaning just the TAR has higher hits, there's also the issue above where Wikipedia usually prefers "core" / "overall" / "origin" articles to sit at the base name. SnowFire (talk) 13:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose per snowfire—blindlynx 00:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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