Talk:List of American superhero films

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Wanted[edit]

Wanted is not a superhero film...

Birdman[edit]

Where is Birdman?

What is up lately adding random stuff on this, this year?[edit]

After checking and editing this wiki, I just found out movies such as Star Wars, Terminator, Ghostbusters, Austin Powers, Indiana Jones, Resident Evil, Machete, Kill Bill and Baywatch are on this, btw what are these got to do with being a superhero film? I removed them but a person named Sparkles32 think those should be included. I mean Terminator, The Matrix, Underworld, G.I. Joe, Transformers and Kung Fu Panda are ok on there since they are somewhat superhero influenced. But if this is confusing for people maybe they should put down "List of Superhero/Superhuman/Magical Films" or something. 67.225.39.87 (talk) 05:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I restored those entries because they had independent reliable sources (books, magazines, newspapers, etc) verifying that the characters are superheroes. Two things- One, everyone has a different opinion of what a superhero is. As it's mentioned above, the boundaries of superhero fiction are not clear-cut. The second thing is that the personal opinions of editors are immaterial. Some people would say superheroes are strictly people with super-powers, wear costumes and only fight super-villains. But considering genre flexibility, it's not always the case. Some would say Underworld, Ghostbusters and Resident evil aren't superhero movies is like saying Blade, Hellboy and Constantine aren't superhero movies. Saying Star Wars isn't a superhero franchise would be like saying Guardians of the Galaxy isn't a superhero franchise. Saying Austin Powers isn't a superhero would be like saying the Black Widow isn't a superhero. Saying Kill Bill and Machete aren't superheroes is like saying Batman and the Punisher aren't superheroes. Saying Kung Fu Panda and the Matrix aren't superheroes is like saying Shang-Chi and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles aren't superheroes. As for movies like Indiana Jones and Baywatch; well, it's not always about costumes, powers or supervillains- it's about the attitude. Of course, there's always the argument saying that the DC and Marvel characters mentioned qualify as superheroes because they come from superhero universes, and anything else doesn't qualify, which is neither here nor there. Fans could spend decades arguing over this subject, which is why independent reliable sources are important. If you can find sources saying that the characters are superheroes or if the movies are superhero movies, then they should cite them. And those that already are cited with sources should stay unless the sources turn out to be no good. The reason I didn't restore Beverly Hills Ninja was because the source was good, but it said the character posed as a superhero, which is not the same thing. And I didn't restore Spies In Disguise because it turned out the source was talking about other movies, so I wasn't sure about that one. I also realize I'm probably wasting my breath because a lot of editors think their opinions are material. Also, if you can't find good sources for certain entries then go ahead and remove them. Well, I hope this helps. God bless!!!Sparkles32 (talk) 17:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Counterpoint, most of these sources are awful and not at all authoritative but pretty weak and terrible, either in their original form or as justifications for the films' inclusions. That or the sources do not indicate an clear explanatory case for the films including a clear definition of the genre and a case for the films including but passing reference to a character, a narrative trope or even as a joky exaggeration.
To go through the films mentioned above.
The Star Wars franchise is included because of a reference from a book called Popular Spiritualities which passingly refers to Jedi Knights as "superheros" in scare quotes. That's it. The Star Wars series also contains ghosts and monsters but I doubt they would be considered horror films.
Terminator has no source, but seems to have been grandfathered in because of a reference in the book Bad for Democracy: How the Presidency Undermines the Power of the People which is not a book about film, comic books or superheroes, but a politics book that again likely makes passing reference to the Terminator in T2 Judgement Day as a superhero or supervillain for some sort of metaphorical point, but is not a piece of genre or film scholarship.
Ghostbusters: a website called "on the set of New York" which is about movies shot on New York shoe horns The Ghostbusters in to pad out an article an article about superhero films shot in New York and rather apologetically refers to them as "superheroes on their own right" (whatever that means).
Austin Powers is referred to in a lighthearted puff piece as a "sexual superhero whose main power was the ability to bed gorgeous women despite his rotting teeth, shaggy chest, and super-sized ego" - I don't think it's serious attempt to place the film in a superhero genre.
The whole Indiana Jones franchise is in there because of a reference in a self help book (possibly self published) called Exercising your soul - again not an authoritative book or source on superheroes, comics books or movies.
Resident Evil: the reference comes from a book called "Education and the female superhero", but the book does not actually refer to Alice as a superhero but as a female warrior. This same single paragraph also lassos in non superpowered Lara Croft, vampire Selene from Underworld, and the, again, not-superpowered-but-good-at martial-arts Buffy the Vampire Slayer. From a personal perspective I'd almost give you Selene, but not based on this source.
Machete: A single line in the book the cinema of Robert Rodriguez "The idea of turning Danny Trejo into the knife wielding superhero "machete" character had already occurred to Rodriguez during the making of desperado". In fact in the film I believe that the character of Machete is a Mexican law enforcement agent, in previous films the character had been a spy. I think the superhero description is hyperbole as Machete does do over the top, unrealistic cool stuff in the movie.
Kill Bill: referenced in a book called "Sex and Violence: The Hollywood Censorship Wars (Media and Power)" but the linked page doesn't actually mentioned Kill Bill, and none of the searched references to Kill Bill seem to show The Bride referred to as a superhero, but I could only see fragments. Again, if it is in their I assume "superhero is exaggeration based on The Bride, like Buffy and Machete, just being super good at fighting.
Baywatch comes from a humorous article titled "One Day They’ll Say the Baywatch Movie Was the Day Dwayne Johnson Became President" in which Johnson is described as ", a superhero in swim trunks who is always on alert, ensuring that his beach is safe for all who frolic on it." Like the Austin Powers reference it can't possibly be meant as a serious bit of film and genre scholarship.
Elsewhere "Steven Universe" the movie is in because the headline to an entertainment Monthly article says they're "the Feminist Superhero We Need" (the 2 paragraph long article itself doesn't use the term "superhero", "super" or even "hero" - the title is obviously clickbait). Entertainment Monthly BTW is a content farm that uses the name of an defunct print magazine that the wiki editor likely hoping you'll get confused with Entertainment Weekly. Even if it were either of those sources, celebrity and entertainment magazines are hardly "authoritative sources".
I could go on. Other examples raised such as Jurassic Park, Back to the Future, Toy Story and the Super Mario Bros films have no cited sources.
Basically the criterion seems to be if ANYone uses the world "superhero" next to a character's name, no matter how weak or tangential the reference, that's used as justification.
That's why this list is terrible. Verlaine76 (talk) 12:31, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where's Batman 1966?? Pretty monumentally important to the history of superhero films... you've got the Batwoman movie from the same year but not Batman? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.63.45 (talk) 12:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The List of films based on DC Comics publications is on the top of the list. The Wild World of Batwoman isn't related to DC comics. God bless!!!Sparkles32 (talk) 00:35, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but then why is Superman (1978) on this list? This has to be one of the worst, most nonsensical lists I've encountered on this site. 75.164.54.222 (talk) 22:05, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Superman 78 is no on the list. It's on the DC list. Plus, once again, personal opinions are immaterial.Sparkles32 (talk) 21:17, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List criteria[edit]

I'm sorry, am I reading this article's title right? "List of American superhero films", right? More than half of the massive table clearly do not qualify as superhero films. Back to the Future? Transformers? Terminator? Jurassic Park?! InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:24, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do people not bother to read the above posts? I said it before and it looks like I have to say it again. We all have different opinions of what is a superhero movie and what isn't. Most of the unlikely superhero movies have independent reliable sources verifying that they are superhero movies, or have superhero characters. Personal opinions are immaterial. I don't know about Jurassic Park and the Back to the Future movies- I didn't post them there. Personally, I couldn't find sources for those so if you want to remove them than help yourself. But the Transformers and most of the Terminator posts have sources and should stay. I don't understand why I have to keep explaining this to people. They're either not reading the above posts already explaining this, or they have but don't care.Sparkles32 (talk) 21:17, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The various Terminators fit quite well with certain types of supervillains, and the Autobots are often viewed as superheroes in various relevant lists outside Wikipedia. Back to the Future and Jurassic Park are both science fiction franchises, but I thought they did not depict superhumans of any type. Dimadick (talk) 21:28, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Sparkles32 - I have found a Comic Book Resources clickbait listicle that describes James Bond as a superhero. Should all his films now be added to the list? CBR seems to have been used elsewhere on this list as a "reliable source" so I guess that means Bond is no longer just a spy, he's a legit superhero. Verlaine76 (talk) 12:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At this point though, what is the point of this list? Who does it help? Vague citations saying "My son likes superheroes" then lists Nintendo's Luigi as one, feels a bit of a stretch to include him in. Same with Toy Story, is it because Buzz Lightyear is a toy version of a superhero character? Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to @Sparkles32 this is how it is with Wikipedia now, to be on the list does require matching any clearly established definition, it only has to be "someone somewhere on a website said a character is a bit like a superhero". Verlaine76 (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This would go against the MOS:FILM though. As we designate genre by as "
Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and reflect what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable source. If this was a list featuring superheroes, maybe. But that's not the defition here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 06:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)rces.[reply]

we need more concrete definitions of what a superhero film is[edit]

there are some iffy ones here Yrs601 (talk) 13:09, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. There's an user on this page who insists that there are reliable sources listing some of these out-of-place movies as superhero movies, despite the fact that any article that'd consider Star Trek, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Back to the Future, or Jurassic Park as films about superheroes is written by someone who hadn't the faintest idea of what they were talking about.
The fact remains that as it is right now, this list is completely useless, since it basically just lists every blockbuster ever made. Can someone more knowledgeable about Wikipedia policies invoke something like Wikipedia: Common Sense or Wikipedia: General Consensus?
And by the way, the definition already exists in the superhero film article. I quote: "A superhero film is a film that focuses on superheroes and their actions. Superheroes are individuals who usually possess superhuman abilities and are dedicated to protecting the public". This list clearly doesn't follow that definition given that James T. Kirk, Indiana Jones, Alan Grant, and Marty McFly don't possess superhuman ability and aren't dedicated to protecting the public. Kumagoro-42 (talk) 15:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But the definition of superhero has little to do with protecting the public. Whatever that is. The main article states that superheoes were influenced by real-life masked vigilantes. In fiction, masked avengers with secret identities are largely derived from the Scarlet Pimpernel/Percy Blakeney (1905) by Baroness Orczy. Who wanted to protect aristocrats from execution. Early examples of the superhero genre include:
Yeah the whole thing is complicated. Popeye has super strength from spinnach, but is he a "superhero"? The term seems vague and includes random Heroic genre films within and very little with the films in question. Not to mention specific credits (release date, cast, crew, or even if they are American productions). A definition of the specifics of "what is" a superhero may be vague, but I may propose re-iterating it something like "List of American films based on Superhero comics" where the definition might be more clear than really vague list that helps nobody. Andrzejbanas (talk) 03:10, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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