Talk:Indigenous Australians

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This article is written in Australian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, program, labour (but Labor Party)) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Guideline for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples terminology

Be conscious of the unique, diverse and distinct identities of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and understand the use of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples is as a collective name.

Collective names used to describe Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples:
When writing about both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, use terms such as:

First Nations Australians
First Australians
Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples
First Peoples

Although "Indigenous Australians" is in common use, and is used to encompass both Aboriginal people and Torres Strait Islander people, many First Nations Australians feel the term diminishes their identity and should be avoided; however, where the word "Indigenous" forms part of an acronym to describe entities, organisations, or government departments the use is acceptable.

When used, the words Indigenous, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander, First Nations, First Peoples, and First Australians are capitalised.

Note: Never use the collective name "Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander" peoples as it misrepresents the identity of Torres Strait Islander peoples as not being the original inhabitants of islands in the Torres Strait.

Self-identifying terms:
Be specific where possible by using the name of the group or community with whom the people you are referring to identify.

Murri is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from Queensland and north-west New South Wales
Goori is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from northern New South Wales coastal regions
Koori is usually used by Aboriginal people in and from parts of New South Wales and Victoria

This is not an exhaustive list

Language that can be discriminatory or offensive and should be avoided:

shorthand terms like "Aborigines", "Islanders"
abbreviations like "ATSI", "A&TSI", "1st Nations"
using terms like "myth", "legend" or "folklore" when referring to the beliefs of First Nations peoples
terms like "part-aborigine", "full-blood", "half-caste", "quarter-caste", "octoroon", "mulatto", "hybrid"
terms like "tribe", "horde", "band", "clan", "moiety"

This is not an exhaustive list

Note: It is acceptable to use abbreviations in your communications when they form part of an acronym, a web address or an organisation (e.g. AIATSIS, NAIDOC, www.atsi.org.au). Using an acronym or abbreviation to describe a race of people can be offensive and discriminatory.

For further information, please refer to:

Australian Government Style Manual[1]
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies[2]
University of New South Wales[3]
Griffith University[4]

Terminology can change over time and, where possible, it is best practice to find out what the preferred term is from the respective Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander group or individual you are referring to. For further guidance, please see the Australian Government Style Guide

Request for this article to be renamed/moved/redirected to First Nations Australians[edit]

Hey All,

I've seen that this has been discussed before with no real resolution, I have created a temple Template:First Nations Australians which is based on Australian Government Style Manual[5] and a couple of other sources, I have also added it to this page. According to the style guide 'First Nations Australians' is now the preferred term over 'Indigenous', I feel like Wikipedia should also reflect this change. I have already made this change on Racism in Australia and Institutional racism § Australia. If anyone else would like to help with either the template, or changing 'Indigenous' to 'First Nations', 'First Australians', 'First people', etc. that would be great.

Thanks,

AverageFraud (talk) 07:25, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia isn't ready for this move. First nations is not an article in its own right. It's simply a redirect to Indigenous peoples. So you're tackling the whole breadth of Wikipedia here, not just Australian articles. HiLo48 (talk) 09:30, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Properly spelt First Nations. ....Talk:First Nations has a small talk with sources and guess work.Moxy-

09:50, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Moxy, I do think that in general we refer to them as Aboriginal and Torres strait Islander peoples, and we already have individual articles about each. Equating Indigenous Australians to Aboriginal Australians is a false equivalency. Torres Strait Islander people are different from Aboriginal people. This article should just be a list of redirects to both articles. I think that it should be changed to First Nations in Australia. AverageFraud (talk) 09:38, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I actually think a good compromise might be "First Peoples of Australia". Doesn't seem forced. AverageFraud (talk) 09:45, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not to merge. Poketama (talk) 11:40, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I propose merging Aboriginal Australians into Indigenous Australians. The only difference between them is Torres Strait Islanders so that the problem of WP:REDUNDANT exists, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Indigenous Australians. John Smith Ri (talk) 06:20, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose That "only difference" seems like a rather major thing to me. These are two different ethnic groups which make up the indigenous peoples of the country, Aboriginal Australians should have their own article just like Torres Strait Islanders do. If the Indigenous Australians article covers too much of the same content then it should simply be rewritten.★Trekker (talk) 09:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Was there review of the articles beyond the title and lede before this... interesting suggestion was put forth? While a high degree of overlap between the articles is to be expected, duplication is primarily exacerbated by confusion between the terms. If anything is needed, it is a cleanup and appropriate sorting of present information, not a merger between two articles that have significant differences. Xiphosura^Talk∞Edits 02:24, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose If the Indigenous Australians article covers too much of the same content from the Aboriginal Australians article, then it should be rewritten, not merged. Equating Indigenous Australians to Aboriginal Australians is a false equivalency. Treetoes023 (talk) 17:22, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative How about we just get rid of most of the stuff in the Indigenous Australians page and just have it be a very basic overview of both groups that redirects to Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Eilanders.__ - Troopersho (talk) 03:48, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think making it a redirect is a good idea, but yes making it a shorter basic overview is a reasonable idea.★Trekker (talk) 11:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose same reason as above - Torres Strait Islander people are different from Aboriginal people, merging would create unnecessary confusion and in my opinion would create weighting problems. Knittea (talk) 12:06, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Some Cocos Malays have been fighting for recognition as Indigenous Australians as well. Might be worth a mention.★Trekker (talk) 12:54, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

k 2601:646:9A80:20C0:A43E:123D:C476:4CA2 (talk) 00:19, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Very well thought out reply, thank you.★Trekker (talk) 20:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Per nomination, see above. Surveyor Mount 00:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

- What do you have to say for the arguments against?★Trekker (talk) 20:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose If anything, the Indigenous Australians page should be a smaller page, as the other person said. This page should be kept. Poketama (talk) 11:29, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 May 31#Australian Pygmy race[edit]

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion?[edit]

Why indigenous australians refers to both aboriginal and torres strait islanders in general? I dont have any idea torres strait islander is such little population but significant australians. 2404:8000:1027:D5FD:CCA9:4FA5:4C8D:A8A2 (talk) 01:34, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please be on the lookout for a user such as the above with Indonesian IPs making disruptive edits to do with Torres Strait Islanders on Wikipedia. This question has been answered before for them, so I'm ignoring it. Poketama (talk) 01:41, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removing c from black[edit]

I hit Enter too quickly on [6] so the summary is not complete.

What I meant to say is that [7] is still WP:SYN, because:

Neither reference says that Deacon used the phrase "black cunt" (being shouted at her while growing up). We might all "know" what the ref means, but it is still SYN.
In Munro 2020, Deacon does not say that the phrase was shouted at her, only "Growing up, I always heard the words ... from white people" (which could have been shouted at other people), and "It's still common [ie now, not when I was growing up] ... being shouted at us."

Mitch Ames (talk) 05:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]