Talk:Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse/Archive 1

This archive page covers approximately the dates between March 2004 and July 2010.

Post new replies to the main talk page, and summarize the section you are replying to (if necessary).

Please add new archivals to Talk:Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse/Archive 2 when necessary (probably around 2011). (See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.) Thank you. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 02:39, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Horsemen Table

I edited the horsemen table (after another edit had been made). This was intended as temporary as I'm sure some of you will fix it up, I just wanted to avert an edit/undo cycle between calling the first horsemen 1 thing or another. I added 'proposed names' because the table needs reworking anyway. Its misleading to indicate that any but Death has an explicit name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.113.3 (talk) 02:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Biblical source

I noticed that revision 242842693, which I made and which was simply an quoting of the biblical passage that describes the Horsemen (Revelations 6 or something), was removed because it was "POV and OT". How is citing the original source either POV or Off-Topic? Thanks. 86.70.151.57 (talk) 18:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Colors

I seem to remember that the first horseman rode a green horse and Death a pale white horse. Can someone check that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.190.134.238 (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Pestilence has always traditionally ridden a white horse. Death on the other hand has always ridden a green-pale colour like horse. The first Horseman has never ridden a green horse before in all the depictions of the Four Horsemen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.208.168 (talk) 15:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Pale=sickly=greenish. 67.188.192.11 (talk) 04:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

"The color of Death's horse is written as khlôros (χλωρóς) in the original Koine Greek, which is often translated as "pale", though "ashen", "pale green", and "yellowish green"[6]"

Χλω-Ρ-ός = green/tender

Χλω-M-ός = pale

know the difference --94.65.118.227 (talk) 16:10, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite or restructure needed?

Regretfully, I find this one of the least helpful articles in Wikipedia, not least because of the lack of NPOV, lack of sources, and lack of a clear purpose. All these issues have already been noted below. Could I propose a rewrite, or at least a reorganisation?

To me, the key areas to cover would be:

1 Introduction (the core concept, origin of the concept, and a reference to the _popular_ interpretation (famine, plague, war, pestilence, or whatever it is, sourced to something), since this is probably what most people are looking for, without a discussion as to whether or not it is the 'true' interpretation)

2 Original context (ie, the text of Revelation, but without any particular interpretation attached to it, and the Zechariah text)

3 Historical usage (notable, verifiable and sourced usages of the topic, whether theological or artistic, divided as follows:) i Apostolic Fathers and Church Fathers

ii Early medieval (eg, Nennius, Wulfstan, Aelfric (?), etc)

iii Late medieval (any Scholastic or other commentaries, mystery plays, literature)

iv Renaissance (esp art and literature)

v Reformation (eg, interpretations recorded from Luther, Calvin, Melanchthon, etc)

vi Post-Reformation theology (hugely controversial, views should be noted and sourced, without an attempt to assess or defend the 'correct' one)

vii Post-Reformation art and literature (to include eg Ingmar Bergman and Terry Pratchett, but not a 'trivia' section of miscellaneous cultural references)

4 Key movements (ie, notable organisations or movements, current and historical, which have adopted a particular, and sourceable approach to the topic, where this forms a key part of their identity -- this section could well be empty!)

Although Wikipedia editors tend to prefer internet links as sources, it's probably worth attempting to get references to printed and published works, since this is one of the topics which generates endless internet pages whose validity is hard to further verify.

I'm sure I've trodden on loads of toes by suggesting this, so my apologies in advance.Martin Turner 22:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree this article needs significant restructuring, there are multiple contradictions such as the table claiming the first horseman represents the anti Christ and then the first scentence under White Horse stating that this horseman is often erroneously believed to represent the anti Christ. ASA-IRULE 04:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposed restructure

1 Original text
2 Summary table of horse description - interpretation free
3 Interpretations
3.1.1 Interpretation 1
3.1.2 Interpretation 1 summary table
3.2.1 Interpretation 2
3.2.2 Interpretation 2 summary table
etc.
4 Examination of each horse
5 Interpretation changes over time - include changes proposed by Martin Turner
6 Zechariah's horses
7 See also
8 Notes

Seven Deadly Sins to Four Horsemen?

Pride,Envy,Greed and Wrath lead to War

Sloth leads to Pestilence

Gluttony leads to Famine

One question though :

How can Lust lead to Death?

Discuss . - R.G. 16:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the seven deadly sins have anything to do with the Four Horsemen. In my opinion, the Horsemen represent the ravages of the world and mankind's helplessness at the hands of God. The sins are something completely unrelated and have no real connection to them. However, if I had to guess, my thoughts are that Greed is the ultimate sin, and every other deadly sin is a result of it. Therefore, it can be said that Greed leads to war (not to mention conquering), pestilence, and famine, which inevitably lead to Death. --...Wikiwøw 21:43, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Well it would be silly to say that the four *evil* horsemen have nothing to do with the seven *evil* deadly sins, but I personally don't see any direct correlation or individual links between each of them.--ASA-IRULE (talk) 03:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Table and picture overlap

Could someone fix the table/picture overlap so the table can be read, tnx Stmoose 05:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Sources

There are no sources cited. As wikipedia says "Please cite your sources so others can check your work."

And, where there are statements such as "The Greek word interpreted here as "pale" is elsewhere in the New Testament translated as "green." " please could the word be given so that alernative translations can be considered? I rather wanted to know what the greek adjective for the "pale" horse was! 80.98.54.233 10:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I see three listed, but I agree - the article has a load of original research that needs sourcing. Ryo 06:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Pestilence and Pratchett

Can someone please explain where pestilence came from, since it does not seem to be from the biblical passage?

Discworld's four horsemen deserve mention

• Then put them in, no? PMC 23:54, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In Good Omens the old horsemen do not become a biker gang, rather a biker gang becomes the new horsemen.

No, no, you're wrong. The Four Horsepersons of the Apocalypse do in fact become a biker gang. Members of another biker gang join them as sort of junior horsemen.67.142.130.38 15:15, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Why does the text say, pestilence carries a bow with no arrows, while on the picture he does carry arrows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.5.155.191 (talk) 18:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Erm, the Discworld bit is wrong. The horse isn't named Kaos, Ronnie's real name is Kaos. Hang on, let me get my copy of Thief of Time...

Ok, let me find the right page/section, it's right near the back. Aha, the section from page 348 in this book, starting "Vanity, vanity, thought Lu-Tze, as the milk cart rattled through the silent street."... Actually, no, wait, the section starting page 354. On page 357:

"My customers do depends on me..." Ronnie Soak mumbled.

"What customers? That's Soak speaking," said Lu-Tze. "That's not the voice of Kaos."

Also, is it worth noting that their horses are different in the Discworld? I mean, it must be mentioned in several books that death's horse would even be called white by horsey-people who would typically call such horses "grey", but I think the others change as well. I think it's in the same book...

Ok, page 369, where Pestilence appears:

"Am I late, then?" said a voice in the night.

A horse walked forward. It gleamed unhealthily, like a gangrenous wound just before the barber-surgeon would be called in with his hacksaw for a quick trim.

It doesn't describe Famine's horse, apart from

A horse walked out of the darkness. Some toast racks had more flesh.

War's horse is still red however.

The horse of War was huge and red and the heads of dead warriors hung from the saddle horn.

Also, Kaos later becomes Chaos, which is "Kaos with his hair combed and a tie on".

Is that worth putting in, or have I just been rambling for no reason?

TheDarkFlame (talk) 19:36, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

What was their purpose?

The article didn't explain what or who they were, so I added a short sentence giving some information. Someone elaborate, please, I'm not Christian and have no real knowledge about the horsemen (which is why I wanted the information in the first place). --Spug 13:07, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

                              * * *  

What do WAR, TRADE and DEATH have in common? They are the three mysterious Horsemen of the Apocalypse. They represent some of the true forces shaping our world today. Second Seal

"And when He had opened the second seal..here went out another horse that was red, and power was given to him and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." Rev 6.4 This second horse obviously represents war, as there has hardly been a day in the Worlds's history without people killing each other. Horse is red as the color of blood. Third Seal "And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come. And I saw, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance in his hand. Rev 6:6 And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a shilling, and three measures of barley for a shilling; and the oil and the wine hurt thou not." Rev 6.6 Here we see coming the horse of commerce , the horse of money and heartless capitalism,and with it famine. One symptom of famine is a skin condition called Xerosis, as the condition grows worse, the skin is often mottled, or has dark blotches with different shades of color. Fourth Seal And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come. Rev 6:8 And I saw, and behold, a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hades followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth. So the final horse is death in all its forms.

First Seal

And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer. This first Horseman is obviously Jesus, with a crown, all in white, going forth conquering and to conquer. At the time of this revelation the early christians indeed went forward and conquered the Roman Empire. The message of love and redemption more powerful than any human force.

Conclusion In these few verses we have a remarkable description of the true forces shaping humanity today. First and foremost Jesus, the Son of God. Second, War, the total opposite of love. Third commercialism, capitalism, motivated by greed, for the benefit of the few and the exploitation of billions. And finally fourth, Death in all of its forms.

The early church was in opposition to the early roman catholic church. Ceasar exploited the image of the church to keep his people under him using a false gospel. So the church did not conquer Rome, but rather Rome reabsorbed the misguided multitude from the church. This was to prevent civil unrest. The four horsemen carry a common theme, subjecation of the people under a rule not of God. This is a similar pattern used against early Israel every time they turned against God. They were conquered by pagans, defeated in war, suffered famines, then death. Many refer to the white horse as pestilence because it follows cause and effect.

For example: Pestilence strikes. It kills many with disease, and destroys crops. War follows to control the dwindling resources. When a winner is found, he rations the remaining resources due to famine. Ultimately, the rationing of resources and the disease and starvation of the populations results in massive death. The victims of the four horsemen meet their ultimate judgement in hell (hades).

If the first hourseman were Christ, after he's conquered why would he let the rest happen. Then, why would he come to conquer on a white horse a SECOND time. When he's described as on a white horse, he subjegates the anti-christ and throws him into a temporary prison (a demi-hell). -- 206.180.38.20 (talk) 14:08, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Andreas7000

---

The rider of the white horse is the false prophet (not Christ, as some have claimed). The rider of the red horse represents war; the black horse, famine; and the pale horse, pestilence.

Robert Merlin Evenson/Church of Ouzo bobevenson@yahoo.com

The discussion with a possible interpretation of the colours of the horses added by Dreamyshade on 23 Mar 2002 appears to have been copied from Metaweb: [1] Is this copying permitted? Just asking...

Dueling interpretations

We need to reach some consensus on what interpretations (and how many of them) we want to include in this article. I'm fairly well read in "traditional" Christian interpretation of Revelations, and I can say without exaggeration that everything I've read agrees with White=Antichrist, Red=War, Black=Famine, and Pale=Death.

The white rider isn't Christ. The horsemen are each released as a particular curse or judgment on the Earth. Even if you're not Christian, and/or disagree with literal interpretation of Revelations, and/or believe it to be divinely inspired, I think you'll have to agree that the author would not have described Christ as a curse.

The "popular" tradition is naming the riders War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death. I can't say how old this tradition is, but it certainly postdates scholarly interpretation of Revelations, which goes back to the 1st century AD. It would be a good research project to try and determine how and why this change took place. (One thought would be that pop culture retained knowledge of the number of horses, but most people weren't familiar with the notion of "Antichrist", and so Pestilence (or disease, or whatever) came in to replace it.)

Calling one of the horsemen "Taxation" is very much a modern (and fringe) interpretation. I don't think it is within the mandate of Wikipedia to document every interpretation which is floated.

I've reverted to my last edit, which includes material from both myself and Dreamyshade (see above). I don't want to be part of an edit war, though, so let's have a discussion here about this. I don't plan to continue reverting to my version.

Jeffr 15:50, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Meaning of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Would the horsemen not be a referance to the angels cast from heaven at the end of the great war. Now twisted in form and released onto the world by Satan, who to my understanding was damned to hell, never to walk the earth, hence the fallen angels, now acting on behalf of Satan, they will walk the face of the Earth doing the deeds of their master. Which would be the destruction of all that is good to spite God, in an effort to redeem himself. As the angels that were cast out of heaven, along with Satan, believed that God loved the human race more than he loved them, now seeking not only redemption, but revenge. In closing, as we look at the world around us can we not deny that the horsemen are not already among us. 4.158.228.212 02:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Unrelated I know, but when God created Man he intended for angels to worship them . If god was all knowing how comes he didn't see some angels get pissed off with this? For a forgiving god he was pretty petty in expelling Satan and his gang from heaven. To my understanding, the Great War was triggered by God's ignorance and obliviousness to his angels. If anyone is to blame for this war its God. If anyone is to blame for Satan and the evil that walks the earth its god. Just goes to show - Evil is born from "Good". If you can call it Evil. I'd call it common sense and refusal to worship other flawed lesser beings. When Lucifer built his throne above all others he was making a protest - not a rebellion. The four horsemen aren't the creation of Satan - rather flaws God placed in his flawed creations.

Take 5

I'm thinking this isn't the place for it, but...what about the Fifth Horseman? As I understand it, there's a Gnostic gospel that has him, called Oblivion or Extinction; source I've never been able to find... Anybody? Trekphiler 08:56, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I have found a passage from Revelation referring to what could be cosidered the fifth horseman "oblivion or extinction" - Jesus returning to wreak vengence upon the earth it seems.

Pagren 23:41, 04 October 2006

Can you name it? (Boy, I'm really on top of this, huh...?) Trekphiler 09:12, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

restructure

I think that this article might be easier to read if the different interpretations of the vision section were structured according to which Christian sect or church adhered to that interpretation. I think this could make more sense than lots of sentences that seem to start with "some believe" and "there are those that think"... anyone wanna help? --talkie_tim 08:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Apocolypse Unsealed

Would you take issue with me adding a bit about another interpretation that is based in another religion than Christianity? The Bahai faith considers itself to be to Christianity (among other religions) what Christianity is to Judeaism. A fulfillment. A book was once published called Apocolypse:Unsealed that explains this in a different context.

briefly

The first horseman

He is Perveted Religion. The Word of God corrupted. Islamic Extremism?

The second horseman

He is still war this one is pretty clear to everyone it seems.

The third horseman

The black horse reveals the dark attributes of this force. Greed and Envy will motivate this horse's rider, and he holds in his hands the unbalanced scales of Economic Injustice. The victim of the transaction is permitted survival rations for his labors, but is denied the commodities of luxury. A day's wage for a quart of flour, a day's wage for three quarts of barley-meal! But do not damage the olive oil and the vine!

The fourth horseman

He isn't pestilence, or physical death, but he is the spiritual death of unbelief. The same type of death Christ talks about in the gospels when he says thing like "Let the dead bury the dead"

If don't see any comment here in a 24 hours I will take it as nobody taking issue with it. and go ahead and write it.

Rahonavis 13:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I think calling Islamic extremism perverted religion is a bit silly and shows your cultural bias. In terms of the purity of the gospel they preach; Both Sunni, Shia and Kurdish Islam, (not to mention the rest) are far less corrupted than Catholicism and its derivatives, which describe Jesus' brother Judas as a traitor in order to discredit the version of Christianity promoted by the original Jewish Christians as opposed to the pagan gentiles. Christmas – pagan, hell – pagan, the abolition of women from the bible over a thousand years after it was written in order to preserve the churches wealth – totally against the word of god.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Great article on four horsemen by-the-way, don't change a thing.

Much content is irrelevant.

Such as the Online Games, Music, and telivision section, at the very least this excerpt is invalid "For a few years, Graal the Adventure (now known as Graal Classic) had a magic system. The evil half of the spectrum consisted of War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death." First off there was no evil half of a spectrum of their magic system, and those were never mentioned in that game, and second of all the GraalOnline article was deleted because it was non notable... Vipercat 19:48, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

All this has happened before and all this will happen again?

I noticed some similarities to the beginning of the 20th Century;

> 1st Horseman - Flase Peace/Conquers - The build up of the European Empires in the 1800's and the interlocking alliance treaties in the early 1900's

> 2nd Horseman - War - The First World War (perhaps the sword represents a superweapon or tactic that takes more lives than usual in previus wars? use of tanks/machine guns/trench warfare)

> 3rd Horseman - Famine/Unfair Trade - Great Depression, American expliotation of post-war Europe / exceptionally high tarrifs

> 4th Horseman - Sickness, Death - Spanish Flu Epidemic - killed more than the first world war and death of the great european empires

The cycle can then be seen to repeat;

> 1st Horseman - False Peace/Conquers - Rise of Hitler and expansion into Europe whilst others seek peace with him "peace in our time"

> 2nd Horseman - War - Second World War (perhaps the sword represents the atomic bomb?)

> 3rd Horseman - Famine/Unfair Trade - Rising Oil Prices etc / 3rd World Famine (present)

> 4th Horseman - Sickness, Death - Bird Flu? Some greater unseen epidemic? Smallpox?

"Fifth Horseman? As I understand it, there's a Gnostic gospel that has him, called Oblivion or Extinction"

- perhaps the cycle repeats itself until the "arrival of the fith horseman" when life has reached a point where there is so little life left it is impossible to repopulate the human race?.

i think the four Horsemen of the apocalypse might also refer to the four different "corners" of the world.The 1st(white) horse was holding a bow,(symbol of victory)and was bent on conquest,and kill by the sword(justice),so i think this could most likely be refering to the NW corner of th earth,(as seen on a map)which would be America.The 2nd(red)horse was given power to take away peace from this earth and set people killing each other.This I think is refering to the SW corner of the earth (mexico,coloubia,etc.) drug cartels are killing their own people everyday,and have the 2nd plague,which kills by famine. The 3rd (black) horsemen refers to the 3rd, or NE corner(russia,Asia,europe).this horsemen holds a pair of scales in his hand (which I think symbolize communism)and kills by plague(bird-flu and bubonic plague came from Eurasian "NE" continent). The fourth (gray-symbol of death) and final horseman would then be th SW corner(middle east;africa)of the earth. this horseman killed by wild beasts.these "wild beasts" can either mean literal wild beasts,in which poisonous snakes,cobras, and scorpions kill many.OR,these wild beast may symbolize killers,warfare,violence,weapons... im not sure this is the meaning of the horsemen,but its a pretty good guess- BY TONY MICHEL(70.114.32.55 22:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC))

never seen a more ridicule accumulation of half-truths (your timeline is completely off the wall/bird flu orignally came up in south eastern asia, that's pretty far damn away from "NE", etc), misinterpretations (why the hell would anyone even care about where we center our damn world map e.g. do you have any understanding of the meaning of the word "globe") and flawed ideas/images of the world around you (africa the somewhat retarded continent?! america the great victor and defender of freedom of justice instead of any transitional super power (just as so many other cultures were in the past) +++ i could go on for hours.. yeah it's a pretty good guess though... omfg--84.73.71.246 (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

POV

This article is very biased. Just take a look at this little number under "Alernative interpretations" (particularly POV words are bolded):

An alternate, albeit incorrect, interpretation, likely based on the eschatological ignorance of the reade[r]s, incorrectly holds the first Horseman to represent War or the Antichrist, the second to represent Pestilence (sometimes called Plague), while the third and fourth riders remain Famine and Death, respectively.

Another incorrect interpretation, which is largely drawn from a flawed reading of the descriptions of the effects of each of the horsemen, is that the white represents foreign warfare or conquest (" went forth conquering, and to conquer"), the red represents civil war or domestic strife ("that they should kill one another"), the black represents famine ("A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine"), and the pale represents pestilence or disease in its various forms (" to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth").

¿Ummm?...alright, if people wanna believe this stuff, that's cool, but no one has the right to say what interpretation of the Horsemen or any other part of the Bible is correct or not, especially considering Revelation's overall ambiguity. I'm gonna make this section a bit more NPOV if no one minds. But if you do, please give a reason. --Wikiwøw ­­ 14:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

- BY all means go ahead and change it. It looks to me as though somone obviously loves Jesus too much which is why those who believe jesus may be one of the horsemen have been called stupid and ignorant. Thanks for pointing this out! - Pagren

Woah, buddy, I never said Christians were stupid, virtually all my friends and everyone I know happen to be "followers of Jesus." But I just think it's a shame that some people have lost sight of Christianity's true purpose, which isn't about prophecies of killer horsemen and tribulation, but to teach peace and kindness and all that other good stuff they show on NickJunior or whatever they're feeding kids these days. To actually argue and claim you know the true meaning of such a trivial part of the Bible as this (and from Revelations nonetheless) is not only futile and pointless in my opinion, but corrupt, as it would elevate religion to the level of a science; when in fact, it's all a philosophy, and passages like these should be taken with a grain of salt. To each his own interpretation, that's what religion is really about. --Wikiwøw ­­ 21:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikiwøw- sorry about that I think you got the wrong end of the stick! :s *hangs head in embarrasment* my point was that wikipedia is here to offer all possible explanations or something along those lines - therefore if there is a wide belief that the fourth horseman is Jesus it should be mentioned. It doesn't necessarily mean its a flawed interpretation or is ignorant as the original article suggested. Wikipedia isn't a church and certainly suggesting Jesus is the 4th horseman isn't blasphemous in my opinion. My super-sarcastic comment was supposed to reflect this. Everyone has a right to their beliefs or opinions. Not just Christians or Musilms etc. Just because someone thinks something is wrong doesn't mean they should start putting everything as Misinformed and ignorant. As for Christianity's true purpose - I think people have lost sight of that since the beginning. Kinda like most religions in general really. They have all been used for the purpose of controlling a population and still are to this day to some extent. All except buddhism - Maybee because there aren't any particular deities involved that you have to blindly worship. As I said before though - everyone has a right to their views. Unless obviously their view is that suicide bombing places is acceptable, preaching death to a country's monarch, its people and its government in the street is acceptable and that Hugh Jackman is a good actor - those people should be shot. - Pagren

Hehe, well, sarcasm doesn't convey itself too clearly on a talk page, maybe it was just my bad; and the Buddhism thing, I agree, it is really the only respectable, genuine religion left (er, not sure about Hugh Jackman :-P). But more to the point, as long as we keep all sides of the article in check and treat it just as unbiased as an article on South American tree frogs, it's in good shape. After all, part of the reason I watch over pages like this despite my beliefs is to make sure Wikipedia's religion articles aren't abused or filled with stupid shiite (get it, a pun?). --Wikiwøw ­­ 15:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Death's scythe

I want to point out that the fourth horseman, Death, is said to carry a scythe in this article. However, the Biblical account nowhere mentions such or any kind of a physical weapon held by this rider. He is sometimes depicted as carrying a scythe, but the scythe wasn't even a symbol of death back then. Also, perhaps the fact that Death was followed by hell/Hades could be mentioned in the chart, seeing as it seems to be an important feature of him.

Quite right. I did the original table and didn't notice I was parrotting popular culture rather than summarizing scripture. I'll revise. Jeffr 18:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually it was a symbol of death:

The portrayal of the scythe originates from a Hellenistic etymological misconception relating the god Cronus with time. Cronus was a harvest deity who is often shown with a sickle, which he also uses to castrate his father Uranus. Etymologists from the Hellenistic period erroneously correlated Cronus with time due to the similarity with the prefix chrono-. From this mistake, Cronus was often depicted as Father Time, carrying a scythe, which is a harvesting tool related to the sickle. The characters of Father Time and the Grim Reaper frequently overlap, leading to the common portrayal of the Grim Reaper brandishing a scythe. [citation needed] As well the conception of the 'harvest' and the reaper reaping the weeds and grain in the field in a parable by Jesus, describing Final Judgement.

its also a symbol of death in the book of revelation itself and the harvest is a well known symbol of death in the rest of the bible. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Covenant From Hell

The white horseman is carrying a bow, in the Greek it is 'toxon'. The only other place it is used is in Genesis 9, where God uses it as a token of a covenant with Noah. Daniel 9:27 says the antichrist enforces a 'covenant', known as the 'covenant from hell'. BMurray 19:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Notre Dame

I know it seems like blasphemy to many, but should we be offering a see-also reference to the old Notre Dame squad at the top of the page? In a modern context, that Fighting Irish team is often simply referenced as "The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse..." Editor Emeritus 22:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Darf ich auch kommentieren?

Matthew 24

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? ... 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

Matthew 24

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Luke 21

7 Teacher, they asked, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place? 8 He replied: Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away. 10 Then he said to them: Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

Revelation 12

7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down- that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. (Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow- servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. - Revelation 6:11)

Revelation 6

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. (And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14) 10 They called out in a loud voice, How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood? 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow- servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

1st Horseman - Jesus Christ as King. (1914 ->)

Revelation 19

"16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:king of kings and lord of lords." "the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ."

"what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (1914);

"Michael and his angels fought against the dragon";

and why this 3 horses following:

The great dragon was hurled down- that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.... 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. (Satan and his demons do not make eartquake, but other things. "There will be great earthquakes") Jesus says eartquake as sign.

4th Horseman - "pestilences in various places" and killers, terror, slaughter, etc. (1914 ->)

2 Timothy 3

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God- 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

Not in 1914 but in Armageddon:

Isaiah 24

21 In that day the LORD will punish the powers in the heavens above (For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. - Ephesians 6:12) and the kings on the earth below. 22 They will be herded together like prisoners bound in a dungeon; they will be shut up in prison and be punished after many days.

Zephaniah 1

14 The great day of the LORD is near- near and coming quickly. Listen! The cry on the day of the LORD will be bitter, the shouting of the warrior there. 15 That day will be a day of wrath, a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness, 16 a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers. 17 I will bring distress on the people and they will walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD. Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like filth. 18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD's wrath. In the fire of his jealousy the whole world will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live in the earth.

Revelation 6

12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig-tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?

In Armageddon and 1000 years later after Armageddon:

Revelation 20

2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Sorry, I dont speak english. --88.247.183.234 21:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

OR

Is it just me, or does this reek of original research?

Inevitably, original research is going to play a role in almost any given biblical subject, since there are so many opinions and perspectives on the matter. Nonetheless, something should be done to weed out all this original research and stick to what the Bible says. --...Wikiwøw 16:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see why original research is needed in a Biblical subject. More has been published on the Bible than any other book: it shouldn't be too much to ask for people to state which book they are getting their stuff from. Martin Turner 23:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirect

Hey, don't know if anyone noticed or not, but Four horsemen and Four Horseman both redirect to a dab page (contradicting the italicized statement at the top of this page). Just a heads-up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.169.228 (talk) 03:33, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

Meaning of Four Horseman

It seems to me that there is a lot of original research here. As far as I know, the four horsemen go like this:

1st is white, represents conquest, carries a bow (which at the time was seen as a symbol of military power), most likely refers to the antichrist, not some agent working on Christ's behalf as this article suggests is the most common view (not the case) He wears a crown, but a different type than the one that is worn by God at he end.

2nd is red, represents strife (war), has a sword and the power to turn people and countries against one another.

3rd is plague, carries scales, the prices for grain that are mentioned are equal to the average daily wages for men at the time (so a person would only be able to pay for his own food, and not support a family.)

4th is sallow (pale green) represents death, is followede by hell.

no idea where some of the information on the page comes from, and no clue how some conclusions were made. (clarify somewhat?)

Some people beleive that the horseman are not to be interprated literally, but rather symbolicly. In otherwords, the four horseman represent four parts of the human mind, Spirtual, Emotional, Intilectual, and Physical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.6.79.45 (talk) 15:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

"O king, and there before you stood a large statue- an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance."

• 1- Babylon - The head of the statue was made of pure gold

• 2- Medo-Persia - its chest and arms of silver

• 3- Greece - its belly and thighs of bronze

• 4- Rome - its legs of iron

• 5- Anglo-America (Great Britain-America) - its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay

Daniel 2

24 Then Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to execute the wise men of Babylon, and said to him, Do not execute the wise men of Babylon. Take me to the king, and I will interpret his dream for him. 25 Arioch took Daniel to the king at once and said, I have found a man among the exiles from Judah who can tell the king what his dream means. 26 The king asked Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), Are you able to tell me what I saw in my dream and interpret it? 27 Daniel replied, No wise man, enchanter, magician or diviner can explain to the king the mystery he has asked about, 28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries. He has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in days to come. Your dream and the visions that passed through your mind as you lay on your bed are these: 29 As you were lying there, O king, your mind turned to things to come, and the revealer of mysteries showed you what is going to happen. 30 As for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because I have greater wisdom than other living men, but so that you, O king, may know the interpretation and that you may understand what went through your mind. 31 You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue- an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing-floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. 36 This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold. 39 After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron- for iron breaks and smashes everything- and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. 44 In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure for ever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands- a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces. The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and the interpretation is trustworthy. 46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honour and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him. 47 The king said to Daniel, Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery. 48 Then the king placed Daniel in a high position and lavished many gifts on him. He made him ruler over the entire province of Babylon and placed him in charge of all its wise men. 49 Moreover, at Daniel's request the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego administrators over the province of Babylon, while Daniel himself remained at the royal court.

• As King Jesus Christ = Michael

Daniel 7

1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. 2 Daniel said: In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. 4 The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it. 5 And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, 'Get up and eat your fill of flesh!' 6 After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule. 7 After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast- terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. 8 While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 9 As I looked,thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. 11 Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.) 13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. The Interpretation of the Dream 15 I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this. So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it for ever- yes, for ever and ever.' 19 Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws- the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell- the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favour of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. 23 He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. 26 'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed for ever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.' 28 This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself.

Daniel 12

1 At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people- everyone whose name is found written in the book- will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge. 5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled? 7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand towards heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives for ever, saying, It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed. 8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, My lord, what will the outcome of all this be? 9 He replied, Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. 11 From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. 13 As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

• Kingdom of God

Revelation 12

7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down- that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.

• Armageddon - "they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty."

• False Religion - God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.

Revelation 16

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done. 12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed. 16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. 17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, It is done! 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

• United Nations and all states: (The beast and the ten horns)

• False Religion -> All false religions: (Prostitute-Babylon the Great )

• This title was written on her forehead: mysterybabylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth.

• The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.

• United Nations and all states destruct all false religions before Armageddon.

Revelation 17

1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries. 3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 This title was written on her forehead:mysterybabylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. 6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7 Then the angel said to me: Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come. 9 This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen -> (In time of Apostle John - Egypt, Assur, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece), one is -> (Rome), the other has not yet come -> (Anglo-America); but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11 The beast -> (United Nations) who once was -> (1918), and now is not -> (1939), is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. 12 The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings- and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers. 15 Then the angel said to me, The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.--88.240.139.133 21:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Revelation 19

1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2 for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.

• In Armageddon:

Revelation 19

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no-one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron sceptre. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in mid-air, Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great. 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshipped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur. 21 The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Revelation 11

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshipped God, 17 saying:We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. 18 The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great- and for destroying those who destroy the earth.

Revelation 20

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.--88.243.24.15 18:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

A revision from author ->(88.247.183.234)

and why this 3 horses following:

• against Jerusalem "...to kill its men..."

Ezekiel 14

21 For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments- sword and famine and wild beasts and plague- to kill its men and theiranimals!

• against the earth and the sea

Revelation 12

The great dragon was hurled down- that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.... Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. --88.242.219.225 14:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

which one is pestilence?

Revelation 6:1-8 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Okay I'm pretty sure the fourth one is Death, the third one is Famine, but how does the first or second one refer to diseases or anything related to Pestilence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.225.108.24 (talk) 15:13, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

P. Pestilence is a modern concept, not from the original text. --81.233.196.49 (talk) 18:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

4th Horseman symbolize unexpected death, untimely death.

• which one is pestilence? It is plague. (Plague = death)

The translations are different:

• to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

• to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Revelation 6:

7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, Come! 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

with death: through disease; earthquake

a) with the beasts of the earth: through killers, terrorists (persons),

b) with the beasts of the earth: slaughter, wars (through persons (Zephaniah 3:3)and states (Daniel 7))

after this comes Hades (grave) the deads to gather --81.214.119.175 19:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Have antichrist a crown?

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. - 1 John 2

1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, Come! 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. - Revelation 6 --88.241.163.205 19:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The three tags on this page

Regarding the three tags on this page: I placed them there. There are no sources cited for the interpretation of the horses. There are words in there like "Appears to be" ,"likely" which look to be original research also there appears to be synthesis in this article as well.
The article is well written, and I myself am a student of the Bible and enjoyed reading it. That being said, this article doesn't conform to the rules of Wikipedia, and therefore it cannot remain in it's current condition. There must be references, especially in the interpretation other than the author's showing where the interpretation came from. Thanks KoshVorlon ".. We are ALL Kosh..." 17:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Why remove the pictures

Who thought it improved the article to remove the pictures? Jeffr 15:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, restored. Cheers, Ryo 06:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Personel opinion? or Is there any verses?

[The] White Horse <=> "Antichrist or other warriors"

• Is there any vers?

Pestilence <=> Antichrist:

• Which relation? Is there any vers?

--88.244.41.226 20:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Alternate view of the Horse Men

This is an alternate view of the horsemen taken from the teachings of one sect of Christianity. Since they are greatly different then everything else that has been discussed I think it behooves me to add it in here in case someone wanted to add it to the article. This view is a historicist view that is taken from the beginning of Jesus' ministry to the second coming of Jesus Christ. This view denotes each seal as a period in time that must occur before the “book” can be opened. It is taken from photocopies that I have of the originals, and is therefore hard to source. That is also why it is incomplete.

First Seal: 30 CE to 70 CE.

“The period of time covered by the First Seal is approximately from AD 30 to AD 70 – the 40 years that the Early Rain Church was in perfect order under the leadership of the apostles of the Lamb.” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 3 of 13 ???)

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. (Rev 6:2)

Metaphors that are used to support this view: White: A symbol of righteousness and purity. (Rev 19:7-8, 14) Horse: A symbol of the Church. Bow: A symbol of the Covenant of God with His Church. (Gen 9:11-15) Crown: A symbol of the ruler-ship of Jesus over His Church. (Mt 21:5) Conquering and to Conquer: A symbol of the power of the Early Church to conquer their own “fleshly lusts.” (Rom 8:31 and Rom 8:35-39)

Basically this view states that a church in perfect order with Jesus as its head existed for approximately 40 years.

Second Seal: 70 CE to 311 CE.

“The period of time covered by the Second Seal is approximately from AD 70 to AD 311 – from the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans to the beginning of the favorable treatment given Christians under Emperor Constantine.” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 4 of 13)

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. (Rev 6:3)

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (Rev 6:4)

Horse: A symbol of the Church Red: A symbol of man. (According to this book “Adam” comes from the Hebrew אדם [Aw-Dawn] which is related to or derived from red-earth. Also red is connected with sin in Isa 1:18 “...though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow...” Peace from the earth: Denotes the absence of truth, and therefore the absence of God's peace. Great Sword: unknown

This view relates the second seal to a church that began to lose the truth. Man's doctrine began to replace the truth of Christ leading to a “red” church. The “peace” of Christ began to leave the church. “The color red replaced the color white.” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 5 of 13 ???)

Third Seal: 311 CE to 538 CE. “The period of time covered by the Third Seal is approximately from AD 311 to AD 538 – from the reign of Constantine to the establishment of the Papacy in Rome.” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 6 of 13)

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. (Rev 6:5)

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. (Rev 6:6)

Black: Symbol of absence of understanding. Black being the opposite of white. Horse: Symbol of Church. Balances: Denotes the influence of economics and politics. Commercialism began to enter the Church. A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny: The truth of God (wheat) is one third as much present as the doctrine and tradition of man (barley). Oil: God's Truth. Wine: God's Spirit.

According to this view of the seals: “By and large, during this time the correct meaning or interpretation of the word of God was lost, leaving [only] the written word....The emperor Constantine embraced Christianity as it existed in his day, and as a result the church and the state were united under his leadership. It became politically and economically wise to profess Christianity....God still had a righteous line through which He would preserve His Truth and Spirit” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 7 of 13 ???)

Fourth Seal: The information about the fourth seal and onward is unknown by this writer save for one paragraph:

“The period of time covered by the Fourth Seal is approximately from AD 538 to AD 1798 (or 1260 years, [which is of significance prophetically]) – from the time that the Papacy began to exercise its unrestrained and persecuting rule over the inhabitants of the earth, until it was dealt a wound unto death by France.” (Book 4, Rev 6, pg 8 of 13 ???)

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. (Rev 6:7)

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. (Rev 6:8)

From this I would hypothesis that this view connects the beast and 666 with the Papacy and the Pope respectively (see also Babylon Mystery Religion Ancient and Modern, by Ralph Woodrow)however this is merely conjecture.

Sun.stalker (talk) 18:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

White Horse

Reading this talk page, full of random prophecies and such, I'm not surprised the article is so bad. But in what segments of literature and culture I've picked up in 27 years of life, I have only ever seen the white horse as "pestilence", not antichrist or conquest. Google sets seems to agree. Perhaps the list given is more common in theology or whatnot, and so we need to keep things very clear, what the four horsemen are in different contexts. I unfortunately don't have the knowledge to provide this clarity, or the time to defend against the likely attacks of the sorts of people who seem to frequent this page. I hope such a person will arise to bring unity to the discussion. -- 71.81.192.247 (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I would question you having read anything then. Go read the book of revelations, in fact, that bible passage is Revelations 6:2 "I looked and there before me was a whie horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest". Something which threw me off on this page is the fact that in the table he is reffered to as Pestielence, yet in the actual part of the article on him he is only ever referred to as conquest, conqueror or the antichrist. The idea here being he is essentially a 'false prophet' of peace, in that he comes and conquers in the name of peace, but only heralds/makes way for the second horsemen, war. -- 9:22, 5 April 2008 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.243.181 (talk)

Quicksilver

I noticed that the alternative view of the White horseman says that he could represent the Holy Spirit or Quicksilver. I checked the disambiguation and couldn't figure out what the Quicksilver link was supposed to point to. Any thoughts? 164.107.219.76 (talk) 03:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Sentient beings or elemental forces?

If the rider on the white horse represents Christ,or even the/an antichrist; would that not imply that all the riders are what we would consider self-aware? Further implications might be that the named horseman Death is one of the known angels of death (Samael, Azrael/Sariel, or those not mentioned by name) meaning that the first and fourth horsemen are not necessarily antagonistic. Hades pursuit of Death could mean either Hades/Hell/Sheol becomes indistinguishably part of Earth, or could allude to the mythological demigod ruler of that realm. If any of the five mentioned are in fact sentient beings, i would presume that they are angels, devils,or something parallel or similar to them. 12.146.22.19 (talk) 01:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

On what authority?

I don't know where some of the interpretations came from in this article. It often does not represent Christian viewpoints accurately (for the majority mainstream Christians that is), and it does appear to contain a lot of unfounded original research that is not attributable.

I propose a rewrite be done on this article that provides better insight into the most popular interpretations of the Four Horsemen. As mentioned in comments before mine, discrepancies such as which horse is Pestilence need to be worked out. I find the original work here to be intriguing, but there is little to back it up. T geier (talk) 14:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

<.< Let me guess. More "White isn't Conquest," right? What part of "conquering" (from the very source text) is unclear? Pestilence doesn't conquer. It infects/weakens. White has been interpreted as Conquest for dsecades--if not centuries--and not by this articule exclusively. 03:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.140.189.253 (talk)

The Four Horsemen of Atheism

I expect some opposition, but I think this "new atheist" movement deserves a mention here. Searching Google for the term the four horsemen leads to this Wikipedia article as the first result. I clicked into it looking for information on Dawkins, Dennet, Harris and Hitchens.

I've since found my information elsewhere, but if Wiki's aim is to be the sole provider of knowledge on the web, it might pay to have something about this. And this is something that's caused a lot of public acrimony. Dawkins's latest book sold 1.5 m copies in hard cover. People are writing books in response. Et cetera et cetera - what I'm saying is this is a lot more enclopedic than most of the pop culture that litters most articles here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.138.32.33 (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

the biblical concepts of the Horsemen are the mean usage. A disambig page has always been available for uses like that little movie/book. Wikipedia has problems, but this ain't one of them. 03:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Order and interpretation

Looking at this from an entirely non religious viewpoint; wouldn't it make more sense for it to go in the order of: War, Pestilence, Plague/Famine, then Death? Also, I do believe there was mention of an angel (or something of the sort, normally interpreted to be Hades) either in front of, or behind them? Representing either hope or life? I forget the specifics, but there was one painting that really showed it clearly, essentially making the entire concept being an ouroboros. Anyone who knows what I'm referring to, please elaborate? -NemFX (talk) 07:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Revelation 6.1-8 is where this image comes from, and in the source material they are ordered: White, Red, Black, Pale. And also, if you've read Milton's Paradise Lost, then you would know that in no sense of the word could Hades be called an "angel." 96.229.63.68 (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, the first Horseman is Conquest. Pestilence and Famine are the same guy. Your own comments illustrate this, as you use the the word "Plague" synonymously with Famine, when it really has more to do with Pestilence. 03:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Links to WikiSource

Could somebody please add the appropriate links to WikiSource? I think we have four different Bible translations there that would be appropriate. Thanks. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 18:52, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

White isn't Disease

I've just read Revelation 6.1-2, the verses about the White horse, and nowhere do I see the words "plague," "disease," or "pestilence." I think this "power" should be removed from the comparative box-chart on the article. If anything, I think his power is a bow: "A white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow." Maybe representative of technologically superior weaponry or something...? But not plague. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.229.63.68 (talk) 02:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Several idiots try to turn Conquest into Pestilence. I think it has something to do with the alt interpretation of Conquest as a good guy. 03:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The bowman (on the white horse) kills with arrows but is described as having power to kill 'with the beasts of the earth'. Perhaps the arrows he shoots are symbolic of serpents. Lightning or 'fire of God' would fit the pattern too. Does the bowman shoot lightning bolts? "His arrow shall go forth as the lightning" (Zec 9:14) Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed "Interpreted as Historic and Contemporary Events"

I've removed this section for three reasons: 1) it is off topic, 2) it violates NPOV, and 3) it is completely unsourced.

First reason: this is an article about the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. It is not a collection of interpretations. This article, and any such articles, will quickly become unwieldy and unnavigable if one includes any given interpretation.

Second reason: including this interpretation implies that it is somehow essential or more relevant than those that are not included. This is not at all the case. It should be noted that this essay - almost as long as the rest of the article - not only represents a quite specific perspective (that of "Eschatological Historicism") but of a very limited subgenre of Eschatological Historicism, specifically a politcally conservative twentieth and post-twentieth century American perspective. Wikipedia is not a soapbox.

Third reasons: sources would be helpful. I would say that sourcing this section would be a very minimal first step towards any possibility of re-inclusion, though I suspect that sourcing it will immediately identify its NPOV origins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.174.73.30 (talk) 21:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

"Riders as nations" sections

I've removed this. It's clearly a rather fringy opinion and does not seem to be sourced to any serious scholarship, which in an article like this should be the minimal criterion for inclusion. Some neo-evangelical Bible "paraphrase" does surely not qualify. 81.151.198.47 (talk) 21:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I second this action, this is a minority view that does not belong on a page about a mainstream topic.

Justification: this is a modern day interpretation that almost exclusively circulates amongst American conservative Christians. It is based on a minority interpretation that requires viewing of Biblical texts through the prism of Neo-conservative political thinking and cold war ideology. It therefore does not pass notability nor relevance criteria to be included on this page.

It should thus be excised from Wikipedia unless a place can be found for it on a page that specifically covers a related topic to which it is both notable and relevant. For example a page covering end of days belief.

CrazyChinaGal (talk) 08:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Paul Humphries' book is about the four horsemen. The relevance is 100% or as perfect as anything in the article. Yes, it is a minority view too. Uikku (talk) 12:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

There was also an article about the book, but it was deleted. Uikku (talk) 12:16, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but there is no scholarly backing for this interpretation. Humphries book is not a scholarly source, it does not pass WP:V and WP:RS for this page or even WP:Fringe. It may have a place on an article specifically about fringe views or End of Days beliefs, but this page isn't about End of Day's it's about the Biblical Horsemen.

CrazyChinaGal (talk) 13:00, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

SO. The White Rider.

Like a few other people have mentioned, I don't understand why the White Rider is called Pestilence in this article. If anything, it seems to me that "Conquest" would be more accurate. Someone probably mentioned something about how the modern interpretation is more popular, but I don't see why that should matter. Honestly, the whole idea of naming them seems pretty silly to me anyway, since "Death" is the only one originally named. No one ever gave the Minotaur a name (if you're going to say, "But Minotaur is a name!", note the 'the', indicating a title rather than a name). On another note, the "alternative interpretation" which defines the White Rider as Pestilence does not cite any reference that even implies the White Rider is Pestilence (in fact, the reference explicitly states that the White Rider is "the conqueror"). TheDestitutionOfOrganizedReligion (talk) 14:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Horse and their riders section possible problem

I understand the idea of putting the horseman in the table to give a quick overview of the horsemen but i it has a few possible mistakes and perhaps the titles could be changed.

Issues: As I noticed in another post death is the only one actually named in the original text. The title name is a little misleading. Conquest as the name for the first rider due to the line Rev 6.2 "he went out conquering and to conquer" doesn't really fit. The title power also seems wrong as having a crown and conquering isn't really what i would call a power.

The "powers" of death in Rev 6.8 as "over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth". I think is wrong in my Gideons 2000 edition of the new testament before the line mentioned above the text reads "And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth etc. The line them would suggest that these are the "powers" attributed to all of them. The powers could have been meant to be allocated War - kill with sword, Famine - hunger, Death - death and To kill with beasts of the earth could mean to kill with plague and viruses like what pestilence would do.

Proposed solutions:

The names and powers as with my interpretation are all quite speculative so i think a more accurate table could read something to the effect of; instead of Name, Commonly Used Titles,and include both conquest, pestilence and any others names used for each horseman.Alsoinstead of power, Powers and Tasks and include the description given at the introduction of each horseman and the powers described in Rev 6.8

Not really major changes its just that as it is it seems over simplified and less open to interpretation of the original text.

Please leave some feedback, Cheers. 144.132.131.237 (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

bow&scythe=Crescent whereas sword&balance=Cross

The Sword and the balance resemble the Cross. The bow and the scythe resemble the Islamic Crescent. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

lamb/lion/man lion/man lamb/dragon

seals	trumpets	Dragon	bowls	Daniel
Isle called Patmos. the Lords day. voice like a trumpet and rushing waters. saw one LIKE (but not) a son of Adam. face like the sun. he was dead but is now alive & holding the keys of death and hades. John fell as dead at his feet. Door opened in heaven. lamb/lion/man as having been slain takes scroll from one on throne	smoke of golden censor goes up before God. censor cast to earth. John takes little scroll (key?) from angel (named wormwood?) that cries like a lion	Temple opened. Ark seen within. birth of Christ child (& John the Baptist)	Temple opened. smoke fills temple.
1. rider on white horse (King of kings?) kills with arrows & beasts of the earth.	hail/fire/blood. 1/3 trees burned up	war in heaven. Michael & his angels fought. 1/3 stars cast to earth	sores (stings/bites of the beasts of the earth)	Lion with eagles wings. wings removed. stands on feet like a man. mans heart given to it. (lion/man?) Head of gold. (nebuchadnezar?)
2. sword.	mountain cast into sea. 1/3 sea becomes blood	Dragon cast down	sea becomes like the blood of a dead man	Bear raised on one side. Breast of silver. (Cyrus? Gods 'anointed' isaiah 45)
3. famine (drought?)	star (wormwood) fell onto 1/3 of rivers which become bitter.	Dragon casts river out of mouth	rivers become blood.	Leopard with 4 wings & 4 heads. thighs of bronze. (alexander?)
4. Death & Hades (plaque?)	Wormwood opens abyss (hades) with key. cf revelation 1:18 and mathew 16:17–20. smoke engulfs the earth. 1/3 stars turn dark. 2 witnesses are killed.	Abyss swallows river. (Great Harlot?) Lamb/dragon (False Elijah) arises from abyss. Constructs mechanical beast with 10 horns. woman flies away.	sun (lake of fire?) scorches men (seems out of place)	Beast with iron teeth, bronze claws, & 10 horns. Little horn uproots 3 horns & wages war against the saints for 3 1/2 times. legs and 10 toes of iron
5. Gods army in sheol given white robes. 144,000 sealed (firstfruits).	first woe. locusts with wings & women's hair escape the smoke. tails like scorpions tails. Death flees from men.	Earth harvested	Kingdom of Beast plunged into darkness.
6. great eruption. stars fall. (nuclear explosion?) (big bang?) (Great multitude from great tribulation?)	second woe. 4 angels released from Euphrates 200,000,000 horsemen. tails like serpents. mankind unrepentant.	dragon, enraged, wages war with the seed of the woman. Grapes are harvested. trampled in winepress.	Euphrates dried up. (Babylon is fallen?). frog-like demons gather kings of whole world to Armageddon.	casts stars to he ground and tramples them.
7. silence for 1/2 hour.	third woe. Kingdom of God Arrives. John measures the temple? 2 witnesses resurrected.	lamb on mt Zion with 144,000 singers (firstfruits). Sea of glass/fire. Gog and Magog surround Beloved city then destroyed by Fire from heaven	It is done. New Jerusalem lands on mountain on new earth. measured by angel. Fell at feet of angel.	one LIKE (but not) a Son of Adam (lamb/lion). stone that becomes a mountain.

The Greek may be incorrect

The article has "The color of Death's horse is written as khlômos (χλωμóς) ... " The Greek NT has χλωρóς (from which we get chlorine, so named because of its greenish-yellow colour). I can't find χλωμóς in the NT. 150.101.114.154 (talk) 12:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)Contributor

Shape up

You guys are really doing a crap job with this article. It seems that just recently you saw fit to re-add the two best images of the four to this mess. Don't ask for references to information that obvious (see pestilence, et. al. section). And try to keep a closer eye on this thing in general, since idiots obviously like to come by and add OR. In a word, sloppy, gentlemen. VERY sloppy. 22:11, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Correcting the Greek Text

As noted by another contributor above, the Greek word for "pale" or "pale green" describing the color of Death's horse is spelled incorrectly: it should be "χλωρóς" and not "χλωμóς," so I've changed the Greek text and the transliteration accordingly. You can verify the spelling in two different versions of the Greek text, the Textus Receptus (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=6&v=8&t=MGNT#8) and The Morphological Greek New Testament (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=6&v=8&t=TR#8). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akasanof (talk • contribs) 00:07, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Colors of the horses

The colors of the horses are acording to the eyes or inverted colors, white for black and red for cyan(or pale).Twentythreethousand (talk) 18:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Slight Question

In the paragraph from Revelations above the White horse says that the rider will conquer, yet in the section for the Red horse it is stated that he will conquer. Neither of the claims seems properly sourced, and due to the edditing conflicts that sometime appear on this page I am curious about whether it is right, so is it right? If so can we properly source it. --Reflections of Memory (talk) 01:21, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary

Hello, we are trying to improve the definition on Wiktionary for the idiom Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. If you are knowledgeable and would like to contribute, please do so on the idioms discussion page. Thank you WritersCramp (talk) 19:02, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Gods

here Small Text

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1. REDIRECT Celebrate the world —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.233.66 (talk) 19:32, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Hypothetical Interpretations

Perhaps the four horsemen could also represent the progression of a terminal condition. Let us assume that the horsemen themselves represent the affliction, and the horses are the afflicted. If The first arrives on a white horse and is associated with pestilence, that could represent the infection of a pure body. The second horseman and his violent red steed could represent the subsequent fever, a flushing of blood through the skin and/or perhaps increased aggression. the third horseman on his sickly black horse, associated with famine, could represent an insatiable hunger and thirst as the body is consumed by the disease; perhaps the afflicted loses weight, organs fail, the body itself begins to decompose, and they are in constant pain as they become increasingly weaker. Finally, Death on the pale-green horse, whose color is often associated with that of a corpse, is when the afflicted dies. Perhaps the statement that "Hades follows" involves the emotional trauma of those closest to the victim, and/or the spread of the illness to others.

It is also possible to interpret the four horsemen as levels in a caste system. The first horseman, on a white horse with crown, is the monarch. the second horseman, on red horse with sword, are law enforcement and/or the monarch's warriors. the third horsemen, on black horse with scales, are the civilians and/or middle-class. Finally, the fourth horseman, death on the pale horse, are the lower-class/untouchables, or some equivalent thereof.

With regards to the article itself, one part describes the third horseman as portly and his mount as sickly, representing gluttony and hunger, respectively. in the same paragraph, perhaps it would be beneficial if the second horseman's interpretation were elaborated as well, with the horseman and his mount representing violence and anger, respectively.

your thoughts? 98.221.25.52 (talk) 03:59, 2 July 2010 (UTC)