Talk:Croatian Ice Hockey League

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championship in Yugoslavia[edit]

In some sports, during socialist Yugoslavia, Croatian championships were held.
"Napredak je bio virtuozan i 1947. i 1949. godine Akademski hokej klub "Mladost" osvaja prvo mjesto na prvenstvu Jugoslavije. Hokejaši na ledu bili su uz to sedam puta prvaci Hrvatske." History of ice hockey club Mladost from Zagreb.
Translation of underlined part: seven times champions of Croatia. Kubura (talk) 00:15, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"HK Zagreb, koji je osvojio prvenstvo Hrvatske 1956., kada se natjecanje odvijalo paralelno s jugoslavenskim prvenstvom" Ledolomac - vaš i naš hokejaški kutak Povijest hokeja na ledu u Hrvatskoj.
Translation of underlined part: competition was held paralelly with Yugoslav championship. Kubura (talk) 00:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For your first part, it does not say in what years there was a croatian championship during the Yugoslav era. If anything, it specifically confirms that KHL Mladost won the Yugoslav championship in 1947 and 1949. It does not say anything about a croatian championship for those years. There is also slim to none evidence for this that you are trying to do. Your second source is bullshit - it says that Mladost won the yugoslav championship in 1946, a year when there was no such event in the former yugoslavia. That page is written by an amateur, with much copy and paste from the international hockey forum. Don't worry, I know my stuff. (LAz17 (talk) 06:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

Your only argument is "Because I say so.". No reference.
My argument is: that's the official page of the Croatian ice hockey club.
I'll restore the article to previous version. When you give some proper source, then we'll compare notes and see what to do. Until then, my version remains. Kubura (talk) 04:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I got a friend to help translate the link. Apparently there is some truth to what you say, but there is much lies also. I see no information about something happening in 1938 like you suggest on the article. When you get sourced data we can put that up. In the meantime here is the translation.

:We managed to collect some information about the history of the club, thanks to the Secretary General HAŠK Mladost, Mr. Bojan Mijatovic, who gave us monograph HAŠK Mladost, issued 1992nd godine. year. Naime KHL Mladost je do 1986. KHL Mladost was until 1986 part of HAŠK Mladost, under the name AHKL Mladost. he was in the HAŠK YouTube, called YouTube AHKL. Full text is completely transferred from the monograph. We hope that we will soon come to the recent history of the club, ie, since 1986.

We use this opportunity to invite all well-meaning visitors to this site (and especially club members - current and former) to help us in collecting all that has to do with ice hockey in Croatia, especially in connection with the KHL Mladost (s teams, izreske Newspaper , reporting teams for games, minutes, club banners and brochures ...).

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Long ago in the in 1946th year, January 21st, professor Dragutin Karlek Fridrich, one of the most popular sports names Zagreb informed the Board of directors Mladost that all is ready for the start of a section of ice hockey. The team has a little workout on Thursday the 24 siječnja 1946, performing against the teams in Zagreb on the Sava klizalištu. Court has not yet been arranged for hockey, it is anticipated next year. Time će se stvoriti uvjeti za međufakultetsko natjecanje. This will create conditions for competition. This was the beginning.

Progress has been signficant, and in 1947 and 1949 the club Mladost won the first place at the Yugoslav Championship. Hockey players were along with that seven times the champions of croatia.

Progress and results were maintained at the top until the year 1961 - when the opening of the skating rink took place at Salat in the fall of 1961. Later, Mladost players were the champion of Croatia only three times. When the professionalization of the sport started, (which was very fast after the second world war, especially with the creation of Belgrade's HK Partizan), it looked like Mladost might not be able to stay in this competition.
In january 1946, in the qualifications for the yugoslav national championship, along with the croatian championship, Mladost beat the team Akademicar with 11:0, and later in two meetings with Varazin, won with 6:3 and 9:2.
The first players of Mladost were" Weiner, Donoval, Bosilj, Đan Tomić, M. Pfaff, David, Uršić, Vrančić, Miočka, Mirtl and Stipetić. Two friendly games were played in Ljubljana with the team udarnik, the results being 3:3 and 1:3. After that artificial ice disappeared. From 1946 to 1949 the president for hockey was a member of mladost, "Mladosti" Vladimir Šuput, and the technical referant was Đan Tomić.
The following season, 1947, had 28 days of ice. Mladost was the croatian championship, beating Tekstilac from Varazdin with 4:0, and then beat Naprijed from Sisak with 9:1.
The title champions of yugoslavia for 1947 in the tournament in ljubljana was won by the players Weiner, Donoval, Bosilj, Tomić, Miočka, Stipetić, Mirtl, David, Hočevar and Marić. That same year Mladost was the champion of Croatia for the second time. In Zagreb at the same there was established more challengers with the founding of KHL Zagreb, and in Belgrade with the founding of HK Partizan, whose team starts attracting the best hockey players from the croatian clubs in Sisak, Varazdin, and Zagreb, and later from Karlovac. That way quality was amassed in Partizan.
On the second championship of Yugoslavia, held from 25-28th February 1948, Mladost did not participate. To be precise, the championship was continually delayed as there was no ice. Mladost went to a shorter competition in Czechoslovakia, and at home when ice was reestablished in 1948, many returned home from Canada. In Mladost arrive first four, and then three more guys, all sons of our immigrants. They were between 17 and 19 years. All were solid, and a few for our standards, great hockey players. Those were brothers Frank and Tony Radosevic, Sete and Joe Butorac, Tommy Majnaric, and the best one among them all, Milan Pataran.
In the year 1949, even though Mladost lost in the yugoslav championship to partizan with 3:6, they won in ljubljana by the score of 6:1, and hence Mladost becomes the champion of yugoslavia for the second time. With the canadian four, brothers radosevic and majnaric, and Pataran, also played Weiner, Donoval, Stefan, Bosilj, Uršić, Miočka and Tomić. In Partizan's team play Zagrebians David, Kovačević and Stipetić, Varaždinians Cerinski, Muvrin and Renaud; Karlovčin Vrabec, and Sisakian Oliver Pötzl, one slovenian Luce Žitnik, and one belgrader, Milan Dušanović.
The next year, 1950, Mladost was the champion of croatia, but because of the fact that there was no ice in Salata, it is difficult to follow the other results in better conditions. In the year 1951, Mladost was second, after the wins on KHL Zagreb with 11:6 and LJubljana with 6:3. But they lost to Partizan with 0:6. That year the canadians went back over the ocean.
For the representation of Yugoslavia, at the world championships in Paris, in 1951, played Tomić, Miočka and Uršić.
The later chronology of Mladost looks like this:
On the yugoslav championship in 1951, Mladost got the fourth place, which was the last place. The winters were very unfavourable, and ice remained very short. More trainings took place outside of the country where there was artificial ice.
In 1953, the Yugoslav championship was in Zagreb for the A group, from the 23rd to 25th january. Mladost placed third after HK Partizan and KHL Zagreb. The total number of participants was 11, which was the most ever yet at the yugoslav championship. At the next, championship, number 7, hockey players from Mladost got fourth place, as well as in 1955, held in Belgrade from the 2nd to the 6th Velajce 1955. In 1953 artificial ice was opened with ice arenas in Jesenice and Belgrade, which futher contributes to the stagnation of our hockey players.
On the 8th championship of Yugoslavia, from 25th to 29th sijecanj 1956, was held in Jasenice. Mladost was last with zero points. The players were Weiner, (Perković), Donoval, Miočka, Šimunić, Uršić, Štefan, Đurić, Tomić, Kumar and Harjaček.
Through entire time, club was led by (skaters and hockey players together) Vladimir Šuput and Ante Škrtić. The trainer of the hockey players was for the entire time Jovan "Đan" Tomić.
Already in 1955 for hockey in zagreb are written black days. Four of the best players leave Mladost: Uršić, Miočka, Štefan i Tomić. Two leave to KHL Zagreb as resulting in a concentration of quality there. The plan was, though not without hardships, realized. KHL Zagreb at the end of sijecanj 1956, in Jasenice on the Prvenstvo Jugloslavije the champion of the country. Mladost was last, in 6th place. That was the beginning of the end for our club. Players who participated were Perković, Donoval, Šimunić, Trajber, Jurišić, Mirko Krajačić, Harjaček, Kovačević, Rašidagić and Rožić. On the championship of Croatia in 1956, Mladost was second, but with the leaving of KHL Zagreb from the competition, Mladost ended up being the champion. A little later, in May 1956, Vladimir Suput died, the long time president of the club. He did not see his and our dream that in Zagreb comes artificial ice.
Croatian championship in 1957 was in Jasenice, where mladost was third, behind KHL Zagreb and Drvodjelc(from Varazdin). But, KHL Zagreb collapses and does not participate in the Yugoslav Championship.
In 1958 in Zagreb there is nobody to make ice. There isn't any money. The asme is in Varazdin, Sisak, and Karlovac. Croatia did not have representation at the Yugoslav Championshpi, which was for the first time won by HK Jesenice.
In 1959 Mladost is not around. In 1960 in the game for the championship of Croatia in Karlovac, wins Mladost by 13:5. Names of our players: Draženović, Krajačić, Belić, Okerić, Sandalj, Šepić, Marek, Anžel, Blažić, Veselić and Brnić.
For the most of these data is by Ivica Donoval, player of Mladost, trainer of generations of young players for Mladost and Medvescak, the leader of hockey schools which earlier worked, particularily from 1961 when artificial ice was established in Salat, in Zagreb. By the data, Ivice Donoval, hockey players also played at the roller hockey championships of yugoslavia from 1951 and 1960. Mladost played in 1958 and placed after "Cement" from Pula, and won third place ahead of "V Lenca from Rijeka. The players that played were Draženović, Cobalti, M. Sandalj, Krajačić, Šimunić, Anžel and Boris Pavlenić. Occasionally some others played, Delić, Tomić, Miočka i Đurić.
In 1962, the junior team of Mladost beat Segest, and afterwards Medvescak, and win the championship of Croatia. The players who played were Sinanović, Palačak, Veselić, Ulrich, Zajec, Idjojtić, Milin, Arch, Richter, Pecelji and M. Šurina. The trainer was Mirko "Mrkva" Krajačić. The senior championship was lost to Medvescak. Players were: Draženović, Sinanović, Krajačić, Petrović, Okerić, S. i M. Šurina, Marek, Anžel, Ulrich, Šiber i Zajec. In the season 1964/65 after the croatian championship, the team was again the national league. But, they won the last place with 14 losses out of 14 games.
In the fall of 1965 in the qualifications for the yugoslav championship in 1966, three games were lost and again Mladost is not in the league of the best.
From 1960, the president of the club is Vjekoslav Vilicic, all until 1965 when he left the club because he left the city. The new president was Radovan Lipovsak. At the general assembly in 1966 he separated skaters from hockey on ice. After the split the president of the hockey club was Mito Lopac, who has associates Marijana Mihajlovića, Zlatka Grgeca, Ivicu Hegediša, Rudolfa Stipića, Branka Harjačeka, Mirka Krajačića, Marinka Bralića and Mihaela Ulricha.
Before the start of the season 1968/1969 the technical officer is Marijan Mihajlovic, secretary Ivica Hegedis, and trainer Bendik.
After 20 years, in 1969, Ivica Donoval again takes players to Czechoslovakia. How the strength was of the players, here is one data. Before going, the players lost from Jesenice by 25:1.
Time passes, and Mladost still has a hockey team. In the club youngers play whose level was never more than average. In the Yugoslav league West, on 3rd veljace 1985, in zagreb's Dom Sportova, on home ice Mlaost loses from Sisak's INA 3:9. After 11 rounds after seven players of Mladost, team is on the last place with three points. Names of players: Lončar, Šarić, Njegovan, Varga, Vrsaljko, Kapec, Fuček, Tadić, Starčević, Šurina, Šegota, Brenčun, Draganić, Lukačić, Matanović, Rosandić and Jovanović.
During 1986, the team leaves ASD Mladost and continues on under the name KHL "Mladost".

(LAz17 (talk) 19:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

In short, you had too many dates that did not exist. So you should at least admit that you were partly wrong, as I was too. (LAz17 (talk) 20:05, 5 November 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

For the seasons I wasn't sure about, I've left empty field, so I haven't suggested unexisting championship.
Those empty fields could have been later filled with (not held/not scheduled) or ( - ), possibly with explanation like "scheduled, but not held because of mild winter".
Regarding Championship of Banovina of Croatia, maybe my source has misstyped the number (1938 instead of 1939; Banovina was legally established in August 26 1939.
There was a source on the internet that spoke about ice hockey in Sisak and Croatian championship before WWII. Currently, the link is dead.
Therefore is the info "Godine 1938. odigrano je prvo prvenstvo Banovine Hrvatske u hokeju na ledu uz sudjelovanje klubova iz Zagreba, Siska, Karlovca i Varaždina" (http://www.hokejnaledu.net/index.php, accessed Feb 2 2008). Kubura (talk) 02:53, 7 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leaguename[edit]

LAz17, this is not fully correct [1] (19:14, 5 November 2009 LAz17 moved Talk:Croatian Ice Hockey Championship to Talk:Croatian Hockey League).
There's also Field Hockey League in Croatia. How do you think that one'll distinguish those leagues? If someone sees Croatian Hockey League, one may think that that's Field Hockey League.
Croatian field hockey, especially in Zagreb, wasn't just "small unimportant sport" in Zagreb, at least in 1960's, when field hockey club Jedinstvo won Annual Award of City of Zagreb as the Best Male Team from Zagreb. Kubura (talk) 02:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In that case we will call it "Croatian Ice Hockey League". This way it will be differentiated from "Croatian Field Hockey League". The championship itself is only at the end of the season. So it is unfair for it to dominate the entire topic. It is a league, divided into the season and into the playoffs, the finals which are the championship. I have been posting some season results. Check them out. (LAz17 (talk) 06:24, 7 November 2009 (UTC)).[reply]

Hey, sorry, but these ambiguous results in the 1950s will have to be removed, as this article is about the Croatian Hockey League, which came to exist in 1991. (LAz17 (talk) 00:03, 25 January 2010 (UTC)).[reply]

What does KHL mean?[edit]

Why do the majority of Croatian teams have "KHL" at the start of their name? Just curious. –uncleben85 (talk) 17:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]